By the same token, the extraordinary pitch of mobilization achieved by the Soviet Union in 1942 and early 1943 was not sustainable. Both sides would have complained. War of 1812. On the Soviet side, the Western Front still had 328 tanks left in thirteen tank brigades and the 1st Guards Motorized Rifle Division (1GRMD) by the end of October: thirty-three KV-1, 175 T-34, forty-three BT, fifty T-26 and thirty-two T-60. America fought five major wars after 1945 including Korea, Vietnam, Gulf War, Iraq, and Afghanistan in addition to some minor wars in Somalia, Yemen, and Libya. I already posted a similar thread about US involvement in WWI. The allies won WW2 and the allies won the cold war. Sure but this not what the OP specified so the answer remains yes the Allies could win without direct US involvement or even with the pre Lend-Lease levels of support if it happens early in the war. Japan was far too behind in war production, technology in respect to other combatants. On September 2, 1939, the day after Germany invaded Poland, Hitler offered to withdraw from all of Poland except for the Polish Corridor, which constituted scarcely more than 4 percent of Polish territory, in order to avoid war with Britain and France. This particular C-47 was sent to the Far North and spent the war conducting reconnaissance and weather-monitoring missions over the Kara Sea. On: July 7, 2022. When we analyze these, a quick conclusion comes as described below: 1 US help in Lend Lease to USSR and Britainwas considerable. What role did the United States play in World War I? It was the job of the ordinary German to perish in Eastern Front where he stood. 2 US taking on Japan and preventing them from attacking anyone else isan important contribution, but especially in the light of #1, it doesnt seem to be critical. By the onset of the great depression, Americans no longer cared to talk or think about the great war; even veterans felt that way. This prompted Germany to declare war on the United States, which, in turn, led to the United States to declare war on Germany on December 11, 1941. The Lend-Lease program also sent tons of factory equipment and machine tools to the Soviet Union, including more than 38,000 lathes and other metal-working tools. WebIn the 20032004 Captain America story arc Cap Lives (Captain America Vol. The thing that is certain that war would last even longer in that case, and cost many more lives. However the steam roller would still have been there and would still have rolled over Berlin though possibly 3-6 months later (don't over estimate the effect of moterised transport in russia, both the red army and the wermacht advanced troops on foot and used horse drawn transport in large quantities as it was, the Russians would have coped)
While the United States quickly transitioned to a wartime economy that had companies like IBM making rifles instead of typewriters and GM making tanks instead of cars; Germany was producing consumer goods all the way until 1942 when Albert Speer took over as Minister of Armaments. After all the euphoria in London and Paris over the avoidance of war with Germany in 1938 with the Munich Agreement, which enshrined the Wilsonian principle of self-determination to allow the 3.5 million Germans in the Sudetenland to unite with Germany, Chamberlain viewed Hitlers violation of the pact as a personal insult and breach of honor. We gave the British dozens of surplus destroyers. The Moscow Victory Parade on June 24, 1945, involved some 40,000 Red Army soldiers and nearly 1,900 military vehicles. WebTo give an idea: IIRC, just before Japan's defeat, in one year the United States pumped out as much material as Japan did over the course of the war. A map of lend-lease shipments from the United States to the U.S.S.R. from 1941-45. He believed that a war with Russia would lead to the downfall of both empires.. ", Nikolai Ryzhkov, the last head of the government of the Soviet Union, wrote in 2015 that "it can be confidently stated that [Lend-Lease assistance] did not play a decisive role in the Great Victory.". Without US, Britain would still be able to prevent Germany from taking off to the seas. Instead, the United States became the arsenal of democracy and Germany's defeat was all but assured. What would have happened if the Allies lost ww1? A Soviet report by Politburo member Nikolai Voznesensky in 1948 asserted that the United States, described as "the head of the antidemocratic camp and the warrior of imperialist expansion around the world," contributed materiel during the war that amounted to just 4.8 percent of the Soviet Union's own wartime production. And the Russian winter. In WW2, theres little doubt that Britain would have had to quit the war without lend-lease. Instead, Hitler strong-armed Hocha to sign a decree authorizing the entry of German troops into his nation effectively ending Czech independence. The war might have ended in 1915 or 1916 with a negotiated peace Yet, here again is a case of the wrong equipment. There may have been mass starvation in the UK. At the end of the war, the disparage was far greater Soviets ran over all the elite crack troops Japanese crammed into Manchuria and trusted quite a lot, and they ran over them in justonemonth. Couldn't the 1 million strong 21st army group have advanced that deep? Without landing craft another example of wrong equipment and lacking control of the skies of Great Britain, an invasion by Germany was simply impossible. But when examined by looking past all these ideological and social biases and historical baggage, one faces a rather unconventional conclusion: A quick look at the strategic setup, relative war production and technology level of countries seems to suggest that Ww2 could have been won without United States. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Most Russians believe the Soviet military would have been able to win World War II without the efforts of the U.S. or its allies, a new poll finds. After this proposal was rejected by the Poles, he could have demanded the return of merely Danzig and the Polish Corridor perhaps with some of the same assurances to the Poles offered by the German delegation at Versailles in 1919, namely to allow the Poles a road/rail corridor to the German port of Danzig just as he offered Poland in real life. Unfortunately, his offer was ignored by Allied leaders who proceeded to declare war the following day. SolomonOf47704 22 days ago. without L-L the Soviets certainly cannot become the juggernaut they did towards the end of WWII, and might have abandoned large parts of the country west of the Urals when they were invaded. Nevertheless, British Lend-Lease tanks helped the Red Army to restock its tank units until domestic production could catch up and are estimated to have comprised about 10 per cent of the tanks defending Moscow in NovemberDecember 1941. Our tank production was lower than Germany's and the quality was appalling. But when World War II has considered it is really Germany and Japan against most of the world. After the loss of aluminum sources in the Ukraine, 80 per cent of the aluminum used in the T-34s diesel tank engine came from Lend-Lease deliveries; without Lend-Lease, there would have been significantly fewer T-34s.84. Lend-Lease also sent aviation fuel equivalent to 57 percent of what the Soviet Union itself produced. A major question, a major discussion topic. The Terror? We had lost our grain-producing areas". Archived post. If you would like to understand what kind of bloodbath happened in Italy because of Churchills political plays, here: It didnt end there. ww1 - the British had mastered combined arms warfare and the Allies would have won but been willing to cut a less one-sided deal to bring it to an end. Malyshev took charge of an industry that was in chaos, moving the Leningrad and Kharkov tank plants to the Urals. The Allies likely would have followed suit by making peace with Nazi Germany, too, thus ending World War II after a mere two weeks of fighting. Not to mention the "scorched earth" strategy which had already taken it's toll on the Germans. Although World War I began in 1914, the United States did not join the war until 1917. WebGermany and Italy Japans alliesresponded by declaring war against the United States. The result would have been an eastern block streching to the atlantic and a much weaker post war US. Plausibility check: could a better handled Italy have become France's partner in enforcing the Versailles treaty? We'd really have had to fight them on the beaches & landing grounds, and the western front would have had to have been opened from Ireland. If Germany developed the right aircraft the war could have turned out differently, but another factor was its industry. 3 US as the major part of landings in Northern Africa, Italy and Europe. The consideration that the possibility of landings tying German forces before invasion comes to mind. Though after landing and adapting to Western Front warfare after a while US forces were the backbone of the effort in Western Front, by the time they started making advance into Germany the war was more or less considered over by many on both sides. "During World War II, only the supplies brought in by Lend-Lease prevented the paralysis of rail transport in the Soviet Union.". By September 1944, we see Allies only coming to German border: The disproportionate advance of Allies in Western Front in the late stages of the war compared to the advance in Eastern Front after this point is due to German staff trying to prevent a Soviet takeover of entire Germany, and preferring an occupation by the other Allies. However, the real significance of Lend-Lease for the Soviet war effort was that it covered the "sensitive points" of Soviet production -- gasoline, explosives, aluminum, nonferrous metals, radio communications, and so on, says historian Boris Sokolov. Most visibly, the United States provided the Soviet Union with more than 400,000 jeeps and trucks, 14,000 aircraft, 8,000 tractors and construction vehicles, and 13,000 battle tanks. During World War II the Soviet Union received large amounts of aid from the Western world in the form of supplies and military intervention, both of which were declared to have been irrelevant for the Soviet Unions victory over Nazi Germany by Soviet historians. There was another sad example of not learning from history. Even with everything noted above, Germany and its European partners could have still won the war were it not for Germany's declaration of war on the United States on December 11, 1941. US started the war with equipment rather sub par for European front (Tanks, Aircraft especially), and when first batches of these supplies arrived in USSR, they were already unusable in the main front except a few items and they were in small numbers. The war would have had a very different outcome, which could have led to a completely different world today. Perhaps my original question should have been "What would have happened in WWII if there had been no Spam?". When the war ended, almost 33 percent of all the Red Army's vehicles had been provided through Lend-Lease. A wild card is whether the 1918 flu epidemic would have played out differently. But it would also take longer and cost more loss of lives. We took up first the question of OVERLORD which we both agreed was the most important problem now before the world and about which we are both anxious owing to the very doubtful attitude of the British Prime Minister. Instead of the four Allied powers the United States, Great Britain, France, and the Soviet Union then standing together in a final Allied Victory Parade in a defeated Berlin in September 1944, the Germans could have celebrated the defeat of the British, marching through London and Moscow as they did Paris. on politics, society, foreign policy, philosophy and tech. Its merely that their Prime Minister is balking, Stimson wrote in his diary. The effect of such a negotiated settlement might have been a long-term peace for Europe, (with the exception of Hitlers plan to invade the Soviet Union of course), likely transforming both Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy into mostly satisfied, rather than revisionist, powers generally supportive of maintaining the British-led world order. They wanted to make sure Roosevelt didnt accept Churchills arguments to delay Overlord, the code name for the cross-channel attack, particularly now, when he was on his way to meet Stalin, to whom he had been promising a second front, as the Russians referred to it, for well over a year. Almost all of the 23 victims of the attack on Friday In contrast, people in Eastern Front were ordered to die where they stood. Eventually, those nations got out of the fight and in the case of Romania joined with the Soviets against the Hungarians. Despite the self-professed role of the US as the guardian of freedom, democracy, human rights and the world order, and the huge sums of money it spends on its military, it has never led a successful campaign to achieve the goals it set for itself. "If the United States had not helped us, we would not have won the war," he wrote in his memoirs. Here are some actions that Germany might have taken to achieve its territorial objectives without fighting the Western Powers. Historically, Germany already outproduced the USSR in certain areas like locomotives, trucks, and even bombers, with 12,664 produced by Germany in the years 19411943 as compared to 11,359 built by the USSR.170 Without Allied intervention and Lend-Lease, Soviet margins in these areas would most likely have widened, while margins in areas such as tanks would have shrunk significantly. History Forum for World History - Historical Events, Historians, Archaeology, Ancient History, Modern History, Human History, History Books, Military History. Does a neutral US still provide lend lease aid to both Britain and the USSR? When we look at the situation in Western Front, we see Germans not sweating much to stall Allies after Normandy.
Could we really have set up the production of our tanks without American steel? In 1941-2 we started to lose shipping to U boats faster than we could build them so we would eventually have brought to starvation without the US Liberty ships. However when we look at the sizes of the fronts, we see that even at the end of the war by mobilizing even teenagers, Germany would have still been at half strength compared to Soviets even if they moved all their divisions from Western Front to Eastern Front: The count of aircraft, tanks and especially guns follow a similar pattern, and especially in the case of guns or artillery, the disparage is greater. The same applies to their contribution in forcing the Germans to leave most heavy artillery in the Reich as anti-aircraft weapons, preventing them from being used as anti-tank weapons in the East. From there, it flew 5,650 kilometers to the Siberian city of Krasnoyarsk, one of some 14,000 aircraft sent by the United States to the Soviet Union during World War II under the massive Lend-Lease program. On top of that, we dont see Japan being able to subdue even China before it entered World War II. If Hitler had accepted Czech President Emil Hachas request to make the Czech Republic a German protectorate without actually occupying it with German forces, then he would not have been in violation of the Munich Pact. Nikita Khruschev, who later became Soviet Premier, was aware of this and noted in his memoirs: "How could we have advanced from Stalingrad and Kursk on to Berlin without American aid and foodstuffs? The notion that Britain could have survived long term with the US's aid is total rubbish. They were rapidly obsoleted and were relegated to back line duties (reserve, regional back line defense, training) towards 1943 due to speed of technological advancement on both sides. As history tells us, Operation Overlord was a success as Allied forces managed to breach Hitlers Germany had the military If we consider Lend Lease never happened, these resources would need to be spent by USSR, and hence hamper war machinery production. U.S. Neutrality The United States remained neutral at the beginning of the war. How many would you like? An estimated 25 million Soviet citizens perished in the titanic conflict with Nazi Germany between June 1941 and May 1945. U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt signs the Lend-Lease Act on March 11, 1941. Could the Allies have won without US ww1? Dont Violate the Munich Pact by Occupying the Czech provinces of Bohemia and Moravia. Peace with Nazi Germany would have opened the door to a major Anglo-French military intervention in the Russo-Finnish War consisting of 150,000-300,000 troops, which might have enabled the Finns to hold out until spring 1941 when Operation Barbarossa beganif not retake lost territory. However, even with lack of US presence in the war, Germany would still need to keep some presence in this Atlantic Wall of theirs. It was quite well equipped with 9,248 tanks, 6,584 artillery pieces and. Rather, the consequence of lend-lease was to virtually bankrupt this country and lead to the collapse in our manufacturing base, whilst the Marshall Plan created one of the strongest economies in the world - who got the short straw? metal splinters inside the tank) when the tank was hit by non-penetrating rounds.137 Although designed as infantry support tanks and employed in that role by the Red Army, the 2-pounder gun did not have an HE round, which reduced the value of the tanks in that role. Would the US have entered WWII on the Nazi front if Germany got the UK to surrender after the blitzkrieg? The problem is the flanks. However non-combat aid like trucks, radios are an important factor. The major effects would have been on the US. That neatly sums it up. Germany had the military potential to defeat France and could have likely forced Britain to make peace, but with a Navy less than one-sixth the size of Britains, it had no means of attacking U.S. territory, let alone defeating the U.S. military. This might have led to the curious prospect of Nazi Germany, France and Britain fighting on the same side, however briefly, in a war against the Soviet Union. Though, it is questionable how much of the soldiers from Germanys privileged classes would be shipped to Eastern Front in that case. Franz Ferdinand was the strongest spokesman for peace in Austria-Hungary. This series of events also would have almost certainly led to a German-Polish alliance against the Soviets that Hitler had long sought for as the Poles would have had no choice but to ally with Nazi Germany if they had any hopes of ever regaining the two-thirds of their territory which had been annexed by the Soviets under the terms of the original Hitler-Stalin Pact. Stalin was of the same opinion but naturally did not admit it publicly. The outcome could have been quite different. It is hard to overestimate the negative impact Hitlers foolhardy violation of the Munich Pact had upon Chamberlain. We cannot measure the distance of the Soviet economy from the point of collapse in 1942, but it seems beyond doubt that collapse was near. And Soviet forces would have been much more poorly coordinated with a constant lack of radio equipment. The United States and the British Commonwealth provided 55 percent of all the aluminum the Soviet Union used during the war and more than 80 percent of the copper. That proved to be fairly well matched against Russia, France, and Great Britain at least in the early stages of the war. Such machines were of higher quality than analogues produced in the Soviet Union, which made a significant contribution to boosting Soviet industrial production. I think one of the key questions is whether the RAF and the British naval forces would have been able to resist for so long the Luftwaffe and the Nazi marine forces without the resources and aid provided by the USA. To this day, there is still a tendency among Germans to believe that they lost only because they were outnumbered, and to minimize or ignore the extent to which they were outfought. On March 12, 1943, the plane was given to the Soviet Air Force in Fairbanks, Alaska, and given the registration USSR-N238. The program sent nearly 2,000 locomotives and innumerable boxcars to the Soviet Union. The Lusitania. WebWithout US forces supporting invasions of Normandy, Morocco, and Italy, the British Empire would have to recruit the missing American soldiers, but with American lend The reintroduction of unrestricted submarine warfare. Therefore, the prospects for an Allied victory after the Fall of France without the US are indeed very grim. After the fall of France in June The additional firepower, resources, and soldiers of the U.S. helped to tip the balance of the war in favor of the Allies. However, the overall 71 exchange ratio between Soviet and German tank losses was inconsistent with the Red Army gaining any kind of superiority over the Wehrmachts panzer forces. The highlight of the event was the lowering of the captured German standards, which were flung down in front of Lenin's Tomb to be trampled by Soviet marshals riding white horses. Only Occupy the Polish Corridor, Not All of Western Poland. Their heaviest tank would pass in between a light and medium tank in European front, and even at that they were quite, quite few in number to be a factor. Britain still would have prevailed. The only viable route seems to be towards the West from Northern Italy, from a narrow region towards France. In addition, almost half of all the rails used by the Soviet Union during the war came through Lend-Lease. Japanese staff knew this, hence the plan for war against US was a quick strike which would cripple a decent amount of US Navy and therefore hopefully force a quick, favorable peace. He believes that World War One could have been prevented, if Archduke Franz Ferdinand had survived the assassins bullet. Without the American entry into World War II, its possible Japan would have consolidated its position of supremacy in East Asia and that the war in Europe could have dragged on for far longer than it did. This was the final blow to Japanese war effort and broke the camels back, by the way. "I want to tell you what, from the Russian point of view, the president and the United States have done for victory in this war," Stalin said. Roosevelt also contributed to Soviet stabilization. Britain, and probably France as well, would have likely pressured the Poles to accept such a reasonable compromise proposal and informed them they would not support Poland militarily if Poland rejected it just as they told Czech leaders after Munich. On April 23, 1947, it was forced to make an emergency landing with 36 people on board near the village of Volochanka on the Taimyr Peninsula. WebIn the summer of 1945, Japans war leaders knew they were not going to win World War II. In all, the United States shipped $50 billion ($608 billion in 2020 money) worth of materiel under the program, including $11.3 billion to the Soviet Union. The British Arctic PQ-1 convoy had reached Archangelsk on 11 October with twenty Mark II Matilda tanks, followed by PQ-2 on 30 October with seventy-six Mark III Valentine tanks; these ninety-six tanks were rushed by rail to Moscow and used to outfit the 146th Tank Brigade and four independent tank battalions (131, 132, 136, 138 OTB).136 Another major British Lend-Lease convoy, PQ-3, would arrive in Archangelsk on 22 November with 200 more British tanks. So we have US as a major factor in Western Front. In addition, there would have been constant shortages of transportation and fuel. WebBy the time the allies were pushing through Europe, the US had collected many victories in the pacific, the arena of carriers and planes. Robert Coalson is a senior correspondent for RFE/RLwho covers Russia, the Balkans, and Eastern Europe. Without Lend-Lease it would have been nearer. Did Spanish really brutally enslave and murder Native Americans, All US Needed To Beat Russia Was To Wait 10 Years, You Can Be a Billionaire Without Exploiting Others, Stress is Most Likely the Biggest Reason for the Obesity Epidemic. On February 24, 1943, a Douglas C-47 Skytrain transport aircraft with serial number 42-32892 rolled out of a factory in Long Beach, California, and was handed over to the U.S. Air Force. WebFor the Allies in World War Two, the defeat of Germany was their priority. JavaScript is disabled. The Allies alone could not possibly have defeated Germany. Had Hitler not violated the Munich Pact and instead used a Four Power Conference to settle his claims to the Polish Corridor with Poland, then he might have been remembered as the most successful German Chancellor in German history (with the exception of Otto von Bismarck) for accomplishing the never-before realized dream of a united Germany. Germany invaded France with more horses than Napoleon had used in 1812! If Zhukov was able to destroy a veteran Japanese army in ~4 months in Khalkin Gol, they could easily hold them off with less divisions and resources. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. It may not display this or other websites correctly. But the Soviet Union was never alone: Months before the United States formally entered the war, it had already begun providing massive military and economic assistance to its Soviet ally through the Lend-Lease program. By the time lead-lease had produced any major change in the situation the decision to invade Russia and thus lose the war had already been taken in Berlin. The first installment of wartime Allied aid that reached the Soviet Union in 1942, although small by later standards, amounted to some 5 per cent of Soviet GNP in that year.
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